Fraser Speirs Cocoa and Photos

App Store: I’m out.

I will never write another iPhone application for the App Store as currently constituted*.

Writing software is a serious investment of time and energy. It also carries the opportunity cost of the other things you could have built. We live in a capitalist economy. Under capitalism, profit is the reward for economic risk. Without a reasonable expectation of profit, the sensible business-person will not invest. Without investment and risk-taking, there is no innovation.

Apple’s current practice of rejecting certain applications at the final hurdle - submission to the App Store - is disastrous for investor confidence. Developers are investing time and resources in the App Store marketplace and, if developers aren’t confident, they won’t invest in it. If developers - and serious developers at that - don’t invest, what’s the point?

You have to wonder if Apple wants the App Store to be a museum of poorly-designed nibware written by dilettante Mac OS X/iPhone OS switcher-developers and hobbyist students. That’s what will happen if companies who intend to invest serious resources in bringing an original idea to the App Store are denied a reasonable level of confidence in their expectation of profit.

Some people might have given Apple a pass when they rejected the e-flatulence applications iFartz and Pull My Finger. Personally, I didn’t. Half of my reasoning is that selecting for taste is the first step to censoring for business advantage. The other half of it is that, well, who can’t think of a million uses for a TCP/IP-enabled whoopee cushion?

That said, Apple is now selecting for anti-competitive reasons. It came to light today that an app that will deliver a capability I really, really want was rejected by Apple because it replaces a feature in Apple’s own software. The app is called Podcaster and it would allow one to update podcasts directly on the device over wifi. I sync my iPhone to my Mac Pro - should I have to go home to put a new episode on my iPhone? I’d buy that app in a heartbeat.

Do you want a store in which every app in the “Productivity” category is a to-do list manager? That’s exactly what you’re going to get because, without some a priori assurance that your idea will be accepted, the only way to know what Apple likes and dislikes is to look at what’s already on the store. Clearly Apple can’t get themselves enough of those ticky boxes, so why not do “your take” on a list of text cells and checkmarks? Much safer bet than inventing something new.

I said that I wouldn’t write another iPhone app for the App Store as currently constituted. What would make me change my mind? Here are a few ideas:

1. Publish clear and unambiguous rules for what will be accepted and what will not. I don’t even care if this is a long and detailed document, but it needs to be The Rulebook from which both sides play.
2. Defend those rules against external pressure from carriers (NetShare) or the media (Slasher).
3. Design a process by which developers can be given official pre-approval of their idea. Possibly a general nod, possibly conditional on certain criteria. If developers are going to go and borrow money to hire talent or build out services, they need more confidence than “call us when you’re done”.
4. Loudly and conspicuously hire an App Store Evangelist. Preferably someone with an already high profile who does not already work for Apple. In fact, it might even be best if this person was not paid by Apple but an independent developer to whom Apple would give deep access to work with the App Store team. This is an investor trust issue.
5. When controversies arise, let the Evangelist get into the conversation and lay out a clear rationale for Apple’s actions.
6. Send the App Store Evangelist to every corner of the earth where iPhone developers gather. Unshackle them from the usual Apple constraints on public speaking. Get them on podcasts. For better or for worse, Apple has to start talking to the iPhone developer community.

[* Update: Quick clarification. "I'm out" doesn't mean I'm pulling Exposure from the store. All it means is I'm not going to invest time and money into new ideas for the iPhone until this mess is resolved. Sorry for any confusion.]

Well said, Fraser. A principled stand, one I support.

Bravo and well said.

Amen. I can’t fathom having invested the time to build & debug an app, only to be rejected at the 11th hour. That’s not how you build a vibrant ecosystem of third party apps.

Well said. I’m not a developer, and I don’t intend to write an app for the app store, but having used a Mac since 1986 (yeah, I got in late), I have seen anti-competitive behavior come from Cupertino since at LEAST that time. Only thing is, as far as the US gub’mint is concerned, unless you have a dominant market share, it doesn’t matter. And in the case of the iPod, I do believe that Apple had better be careful. Including the iTMS.

One can only wonder why this stuff wasn’t blindingly obvious to Apple from the beginning.

I gave Apple a pass on the $999 “I am rich!” application, because it was more likely a cause for people complaining to Apple “I bought it by mistake, oh please help, it’s too much!” But the rest? They should have been left standing.

I’m not sure that is the right title for the job you are describing. I think of an evangelist as someone who promotes a thing to the public in general but doesn’t solve individual problems. Ombudsman sounds more like the title for the job you are describing.

Even bland to-do apps are potentially threatened by current policies. Podcaster was rejected for replicating functionality found in the desktop version of iTunes, after all. Following that reasoning, every to-do app in the app store could be construed as competing with iCal. Boom, as Steve says, all of them could go out the window.

@ Tom Harrington: And I hope they do (most of em anyway).

Thank you Fraser. It is encouraging that someone who has been approved, and is I hope making a good profit selling in the App Store, even feels this way. A friend and I have invested most of our time this year to investing in a Mac app and have been dabbling in some Cocoa Touch projects (even though we STILL can’t even TEST on Apple’s hardware).

When I read news like this, and see Michael Ash and Steven Frank and others who have been at this far longer worrying about where else Apple might try to exercise this kind of control, it deeply bothers me. It’s one thing to be Karelia-ed in an open market. It’s quite another to be powerless to talk openly, properly test or freely sell one’s work. Is this also the future of indie Mac development? If so, we’ve made a very bad investment.

I agree. The App Store “black box” sucks.

From my current experience, it seems that the fate of every submission is at a whim of the individual reviewer.

I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Podcaster is approved when it is re-submitted.

Nailed it.

Plenty of people are unaware or ambiguous to the rather anti-competitive practices that Apple sometimes conducts. The sad part is that it is users who lose out in the end. Well done for sticking to your guns though.

I think that there is a lot exaggeration and misunderstanding related to the fact the Podcaster was rejected from the App Store and a lot of emotional reactions are resulting from it. Speaking of an anti-competitive practice from Apple is not only highly exaggerated but it does make little sense.

The way i understanding it is that Podcaster duplicates the podcast features of iTunes (the computer based iTunes not the iPhone app). Every iPhone/iPod user has iTunes, so Podcaster introduces a division between the iTunes downloaded podcasts and the Podcaster downloaded podcasts. That’s not of course an issue by itself (besides that the duplication can be confusing for some users), but it does it by putting a huge burden on the network. That’s all the issue…

Si i guess that Podcaster was rejected because of the excessive bandwidth required for downloading tons of podcasts. Podcasts can be quite heavy, a lot of them weight 100 MB, most of them more than 10 MB, by comparison even Apple’s App Store app won’t download apps bigger than 10 MB over the air.

Yes you can surely download the podcasts over wifi, but most users will download over 3G networks and downloading files as big as 20, 50, 100 MB over 3G is quite problematic (today), that’s quite easy to understand.

So the reason why Podcaster was rejected is purely technical to me, i can’t imagine millions of users downloading tons of podcasts and hence tons of data without making problems to the network. Remember the AT&T’s 3G network is not only used by iPhones users…. Surely Apple should be more transparent but i guess the developer should try to contact them again to get further explanations.

But again, i would think that Apple judged that the very high bandwidth requirement introduced by Podcaster is a show killer and it does not justify the application because you can anyway get podcasts with iTunes but without introducing huge burden over the network, something that it already does not need. Maybe the Podcaster’s developer could talk to Apple and decide with them what file size they consider to be reasonable and the size limit of a podcast over which Podcaster can’t download.

@Hakime:

Two things, first, and maybe I am wrong about this but from what I gleaned about Podcaster I thought it only downloaded podcasts over WiFi?

Second, if the reason for not letting the app through was “too much burden on the cell network” then that’s exactly what they should have said. Wouldn’t have been good, but it would have been better than all this.

“Apple’s current practice of rejecting certain applications at the final hurdle - submission to the App Store - is disastrous for investor confidence. Developers are investing time and resources in the App Store marketplace and, if developers aren’t confident, they won’t invest in it.”

I’m not defending Apple’s banning of the podcasting app - but you have made a large leap here. The categories of developers that would be writing something that potentially competes with Apple is smaller than the realm of possible applications, much smaller. I don’t see why it would put off many, many developers who have an application idea that clearly does not compete.

Hopefully Apple will rescind the ban on the podcasting application, but at least us developers know what the ground rules are now - or at least a clearer picture of the edges.

That said, I like your ideas for improvement (especially vetting of potential application ideas without resources applied) and hope Apple can take something from them.

If it’s a bandwidth issue, the resolution is simple. Just like the iTunes mobile app, Podcaster (shouldn’t that be catcher?) could only download episodes while connected to WiFi.

Well, you all know Steve’s email address (hint: it starts with sjobs and ends in ??ple.com). Just send him a few nice words, he might be interested in them. And don’t think that somebody else already sent him one. Just send him one yourself. I’m sure Steve will appreciate it.

You wrote that you are out and then further clarify that your are not pulling Exposure.

That led me to thinking. First I am not a developer I am just an iPod touch owner who would like to use my device to its fullest. I believe that “iTunes Store App Store” developers should try to form a sort of “interest group” perhaps under the auspices of a third party organization such as the EFF or the Creative Commons Org - heck- even O’Reilly Media would do. This group would work like a lobby or a union. It purpose would be to present a unified front against Apple and should not be seen as developers programming helpers group. A group where small and large shops can join.

The App Store is growing quite fast and large and is quickly becoming a major revenue source along with being a tool to ensure iPhone and iPod Touches sales. I can easily imagine it being used to deliver applications for the Mac itself along with a mechanism for user input. Just think about it. My Mom gets a iMac for Christmas and slowly gets comfortable using it. Her wishes and needs start to rise above the newbie level and she discovers that she can use it to support her hobbies and tasks. Through browsing the App Store she find trinkets along with gems to make her life more productive and fun. She even uses a general feedback/forum system to request desires and needs - such as a quilting tool to design patterns and stitches or iCal module to remind her take her her medicine. Developers would peruse the feedback to look for trends and ideas. Hey the only middleman between the customer and the manufacture is the App Store itself. Overhead is reduce and the system should ensure that the cream rises to the top.

And thats the crux of the situation. Without the Apps there is no App store. You developers are on the ground floor of a new sales concept that delivers to a market that is savvy, influential and even best of all not afraid to exchange money for quality. But your between a rock and a hard place. You guys should band together and threaten to strike. Form acts of protests even going so far as to pull your products if your demands are not met. This group should have representatives who would interact and intermediate for the group as well as being a voice. Present their side of the issues while hopefully hearing Apple’s side as well. Of course this group will need to compromise from time to time or even give praise.

I know creating and forming such an entity is a major undertaking as well as having lots of pitfalls. I believe its the only chance for developers to protect their interests and help level the playing field. But it is also a method to show solidarity among yourselves.

Ian

I’ve scraped all my “serious” code for iPhone apps. Instead, I will probably finish a few simple games I’ve made prototypes for (low investment, low probability of issues with Apple, can easily be changed if Apple objects to specific thing). Given its restrictions, the SDK seems to be made mainly for games, anyway; most of my interesting ideas are not doable on the iPhone to begin with.

I’ll get an Android phone once they’re out and probably implement a few of my ideas on this phone.

Well said, and the suggestions are spot on, I’m too are seriously worried by the recent developments it’s time for clear rules and openness.

You should be more careful dismissing crapware as written by ‘dilettante hobbyist students’. You might be surprised how much good software is written by people who are younger and not as professional as you are, especially on the Mac and iPhone. Look at this year’s Best Leopard User Experience ADA winner, Macnification by Orbicule. Those guys are pretty young students, not even CS students (can’t be pros!), and their app rocks. Your wide generalisation is insulting people like them.

Apart from that, I agree with your post, although I will not jump to the same conclusion. Developing software for the iPhone is just too much fun, and I think you can easily avoid doing something that will be rejected (again, I don’t like the current policy either, but we gotta deal with it for now).

The “excessive bandwidth required” excuse is a crock of shit. How can it be that apps similar to Podcaster exist on the Symbian platform without causing network problems. And even if we want to assume that AT&T’s 3G network is so lame that it can’t cope with such an app, why shouldn’t it be available in Europe or Asia or Australia where there are much more robust 3G networks? (For instance, you can get this app on ITMS Australia.)
Apple’s declared reason for not allowing this app is anti-competitive. I hope they get their arses sued.

Sorry …
“(For instance, you can get this app on ITMS Australia.)” should have read (For instance, you *can’t* get this app on ITMS Australia.)

I think one should try to get as many newspapers (Times, etc) and TV news shows to report about it.
If this gets covered in the mass media then Apple has to react in order to protect their stocks from breaking in.

Perhaps if we began seeding the reviews of various random apps with our opinions about the apps store, we might better get the message across?

This is why I might end my iPhone contract early . . . I’d also suggest that folks vociferously let Apple know about this shite . . . f@ing unbelievable behavior. I need to see visible improvement from Apple or I’m leaving . . . .

Amen to that - the whole thing is a farce, and I’m not that thrilled with the closed aspect of it either.

I, like you, thought the “Pull My Finger” rejection went too far. If we want to do something, we need to organize our collective influence. Apple is relying on these blog posts being ephemeral and things quieting down.

I think organizing around the “Pull My Finger” rejection is the best place to start, because Apple used a justification (”limited utility”) that we can easily debunk. We can show Apple how many people would download Pull My Finger by joining this campaign: http://www.thepoint.com/campaigns/apple-please-allow-pull-my-finger-into-the-app-store

Please help spread the word.. we need to do something.

As an Exposure user that was looking forward to a Flickr uploader, you’ll be missed, Fraser!

Fraser, did you consider pulling Exposure? If enough high profile developers like you did this with enough killer apps then it could make a difference.

Of course it’s easy for me to suggest this when my income doesn’t depend on Apple, but I’d be interested in your thoughts.

I don’t think you want what you’ve suggested… That would make it basically the same as getting a product on XBox 360, PS3, Wii, DS, PSP etc.

It would be the death knell for the vast majority of development.

Free for all is the only system that makes iPhone worth while. Most of what exists on iPhone now would not exist with the system you outline. Sounds ok, until you realise that includes the good apps as well as the bad.

iPhone was an attractive platform because it didn’t have those onerous requirements… at least that was they way it was supposed to be.

I’ve been planning on writing an app - now you’ve given me some reason to reconsider. Thanks for speaking up about it.

I’m reminded of the famous quote from Voltaire: “I may not like your whoopee cushion app but I will defend to the death your right to make whoopee” (I may have mis-translated from the original French but I think its nearly accurate).

You should start a petition. This is completely unacceptable behavior from Apple. If the circumstances were very different, i.e you were able to get approval before writing the software, it _might_ be okay. Sorry this had to happen to you.

Apple seriously needs to rethink their App Store strategy. They need to give some control to the developers. The reviews section is top on that list.

And yes, a pre-approval system should also be put into place. I feel so sorry for you having to create such a nice app (from the sound of it) and having it rejected.

Do create a petition and we will all join in for sure.

Well said. I am a bit Apple fan, but what they are doing in controlling the “content” has put them in the same position as other content distributors… I see that a software developer has a direct conflict when it becomes a distributor. Same for the Hwood studios!

Well said. I am a big Apple fan, but what they are doing in controlling the “content” has put them in the same position as other content distributors… I see that a software developer has a direct conflict when it becomes a distributor. Same for the Hwood studios!

I support you. You´re so damn right, Apple is acting like a freakin dictator here…WTF is their problem? Podcaster seems like and wonderful App and they should´ve approved it. It doesn´t duplicate any function cause there´s no podcast feed manager built in, so keep ahead, Good for you!

i am actually disgusted with the process to register as a iphone developer. i registered my company about 3 weeks ago. after regular pestering over their website with support, they asked me to fax my company registration papers/proof of identity. i did and its been a week. i have not heard from them and its close to 4 weeks. i am really disgusted with this treatment and pretty close to just calling it off. and switching my investments to RIMM and Android. screw apple with this attitude.

THANK YOU!! Seriously, please go find something more productive to do with your time and leave the rest of us alone. We don’t care if you’re angry, whiny, miserable — it likely comes across in the crappy code you ultimately write. Others will write for the iPhone and you really won’t be missed — Hell, I don’t know who you are — not do I care. I’ll continue to love many of the apps I find in the iPhone and not miss you or your miserable friends.

@jennings - So pay your early termination fee and leave. No one is forcing you to stay with them. Unlock your phone if you still want it and drop someone else’s SIM into it. If not, there’s always fleabay.

@Fraser - It’s a bit hypocritical of you to say you’re pulling out, then leave Exposure available. If you’re going to do it, then do it. Otherwise you just end up looking like a whiner.

@Max Stay classy, my friend! What did _you_ ship today?

@R3ACTOR You must have missed the clarification at the bottom: “I’m not going to invest time and money into new ideas for the iPhone until this mess is resolved”. I’m pulling out of _new development_. I have obligations to my existing customers that I can’t and won’t walk away from.

I don’t think you’re a whiner - your points are valid - but I don’t understand why you aren’t pulling Exposure. It doesn’t matter that your app is free - if you really want to stand behind your words, you would tell Apple to pull the app from the store. Otherwise you do look somewhat like a hypocrite. Your message would get out even more if the press found out developers are pulling apps from the store.

Maybe what is needed is a web page where Apple lists why apps are rejected.

Maybe something is fishy, but my god, the jump to conclusions about anti-competitive reasons in this thread is ridiculous. How many apps have been removed?
(Like it or not, Apple’s partnership with AT&T forces them to follow some rules at least until their agreement is over.)

@matt For an accusation of hypocrisy to stick, I think that you would at least have to demonstrate that I have demanded others to do something that I am not myself doing.

All I said was that I’m not going to work on any new iPhone apps until these concerns are resolved. I make no demands about what other developers should do.

Perhaps developers should band together and pull all their apps. Half the apps disappearing would make a front page news story, and maybe force some action.

I did not mean to accuse you of outright hypocrisy (thus the “look somewhat” qualifier).

Again, I agree with what you are saying and I understand your obligations to existing customers, but I find the message a bit weak if you are protesting Apple’s policies by not doing any more app development, yet still allowing Apple (and yourself) to benefit from having your app listed on the store.

This and other stupid restrictions (you can’t change the SMS sound, can’t turn off the faulty auto correction feature, Apps are restricted in many ways) will lose Apple a lot of customers when Android is ready and working.

I must admit I thought the “I’m Rich” app was funny http://tinyurl.com/6ppvpm

But I agree w/you that developing serious software is a huge commitment and before making the investment there should be some kind of assurance. The rejection at the eleventh hour does not bode well if you’re a serious developer. I think the developers should be vetted at the beginning before making the time and resource investment.

@Hakime:

You know Mobile Safari plays video, right?

@Kendall:

This is at least the third rule Apple has invoked without any kind of official communication to the developer community. A big part of the problem is that we have no idea what other secret rules might exist. Also, the supposedly duplicated functionality isn’t even available on the iPhone itself. None of us can say how far that stretches.

@Sachin Some sort of pre-submitted Functional Spec’ and UI mockup would make sense. At least then a Dev’ can get a sense of whether or not to proceed.

The bandwidth argument is bizarre. Don’t mobile phone companies *want* you to use the data you pay for (and would pay extra for if you go over your quota)? Aren’t they encouraging 3G use - they are in the UK. 3G mobile broadband is a big thing here. Mobile date as a percentage of use was really small until this time last year.

Surely if the US operator doesn’t have the data capacity then they’ll have to upgrade their network?

I second the nomination of an iPhone/Mobile OS X evangalist, but I also want to see more communicaton, more clarity, more trust.

I see a dovetail issue here with the NDA restrictions, or at least the lack of a sunset clause in them. I’m a ruby dev by trade, I want to learn ObjC and develop for the iPhone, yet something about the Apple official documentation isn’t working for me, and that usually means I go off and buy an O’Reilly book, but they can’t write/publish one right now because of the NDA restrictions (cf http://twitter.com/timoreilly/statuses/911948256).

This lack of communication and clarity is just another puddle of mud in the developer community, just like the “restrictions” that Fraser’s hit.

The value of the iPhone isn’t in it’s hardware, I didn’t replace my N95 because the iPhone is a better piece of electronics it’s not, I replaced it because I know that in 6 months, a year, 5 years, the iPhone is going to have all the apps I want to have with me all the time.

We’re all fanboys here, we want the iPhone to succeed, but Apple needs to start talking to us, those people who will take this hardware and grow the platform Apple wants to build.

hmm.. Apple = censorship. Not good.

If you don’t like the App Store policies, then go somewhere else. Go to Android of Palm or Windows Mobile. The App Store didn’t even exist a few months ago. It’s been nothing but whine, whine ever since. Go away losers. Don’t develop for Apple.
The iPhone is NOT an open platform. Apple needs to maintain a level of security if it hopes to sell to big business. Wake up idiots.

The iPhone SUCKS, or at least that’s what I used to think until they released the App Store. Now I can play games, ssh to my server, play my pocket guitar and much more. It’s more of an iComputer than an iPhone to me. Heck, I don’t even make phone calls!

But I swear on my mothers grave, if they keep rejecting ideas and contributions from fellow programmers, I’ll start posting “iPhone SUCKS” messages all over the Web. Apple is evil, and that’s a shame, because they make the best hardware and software in the world, no doubt about that.

I believe Ombudsman is the word you are looking for, not evangelist.

I don’t understand why so much of the current high tech world likes Apple and hates Microsoft. I hate Microsoft, but if Jobs had won in the early 90s instead of Gates, we’d probably be a lot worse off. Neither Apple nor Microsoft are good for independent developers or the world in general. They are both places that produce a lot, but given their methods they are net negatives.

If you want to try to make enough money to survive a couple of years, screw around writing iPhone apps. If you want to make a world where your grandchildren will be able to write tri-corder apps from their apartment at the Moon-Earth Lagrange point, then you need to be living like a scrub, working whatever day job you can find, and writing apps for the OpenMoko.

I like your 3rd point. It is really needed and can be a great confidence booster to the developer. Even facebook can have something like that.

Y’know, for all the talk of “censorship” and what-have-you that people are throwing around here, it’s good to keep into perspective that the App Store is still the most open platform for independent developers currently available aside from the general PC shareware market.
I will second the comment that, by implementing the suggestions you provide, Fraser, you are dooming the App Store to only being viable to developers with a track record. This is why there are fewer and fewer small developers in the games industry, because “pre-approval” soon evolves into developers being demanded to provide “proof of concept”, which means you have to submit things like prototypes and concept design documents, which not only slow down the process considerably, but also are MORE likely to be rejected than a working final product. Which leaves guys like me, who are JUST entering the development community and have no experience with such things, out in the cold. THAT is the fate of some of your suggestions.
No one can argue that Apple needs to define some rules of submission, for sure, as it would certainly be better for all people involved, but some of your other suggestions are just as likely to cause more trouble in the long run for short-term gain.

” of poorly-designed nibware written by dilettante Mac OS X/iPhone OS switcher-developers and hobbyist students.”

At least the ‘poorly designed nibware’ may be written by non-egoistical cocky ‘rockstar’ superhackers, gods of algorithms. You had a good point,but you lost me with this mean comment. Just who do you think you are? So blatantly mean-spirited and self involved. No need to insult people just because they’re interested in being creative and trying to create something cool.

I second the comment above by Bjorn Tipling.

Mr. Speirs you are an ass. Here’s hoping Apple removes your App and denies any future apps from you.

Fraser,

I think you need to remember where you are in the pecking order of Mac developers - somewhere in the lower half. What right do you have to assume your coding skills are any more superior than those of others who have produced something like Koi Pond or the multitude of ToDo apps?

To demean some of the commenters by taunting them with “What did _you_ ship today” - that’s a cheap shot.

If you’re trying to put potential developers off then you’re going the right way about it - almost as bad as Apple tbh.

Regarding shipping products - FlickrExport 3, what beta are we at again? It’s only uploading photos to a website for pitys sake - Delicious Library it ain’t. Will this ship by 2009 (or ever)?

My cynical side says you are milking FlickrExport 2 for all it’s worth as you want/need to put the cost up for v3 and make v3 a paid upgrade with little new features that the majority of the v2 users will ever need.

Maybe I am wrong… if so prove it and release FlickrExport 3 now for existing users at a low, low price. It’s not the only way to get photos up to Flickr after all.

If you want support for your proposals you must to get support from everyone at EVERY level - *and* withdraw your Exposure app from the AppStore.

Making a stand means making a stand - you’re either in or you’re not.

As we all know you won’t do that as it would stop a source of income for you - pity as I did have respect for you at one stage

All this smacks of New Labour : saying one thing and doing another ….

In terms of business I totally agree.

Personally I would I even go a little bit further…
Basically any censorship from a single institution is a very scary development.
Somebody wants Porn on his device… so what… his choice!
Think about this one (and I know it’s provoking but just THINK about it for one second)
Even telling a Nazi not to have antisemi content gets pretty scary close to what I understand as FASCISM (look it up and READ the definition)!
And please don’t get me wrong… this is NOT about having this kind of content!!!
I’m just using this extreme example to make a point here…

but anyways … that’s just my 2¢ and not the point here…

The article above thou very well does get to the point and ahead provides a really realistic solution to the problem!

Easy answer really:
http://www.forum.nokia.com/

Like you Frasier, I had already ceased writing apps for the app store. Nothing of mine was refused but I was nevertheless unhappy with the status quo. Nice to know I’m not alone.

Well said! You are absolutely correct.

P.S. to nitpick: “priori assurance” S.P.

I wouldn’t want someone to read it and take the focus off of the important message to comment on spelling. Hopefully this crosses Steve’s desk.

@ABW
> I think you need to remember where you are in the pecking order of Mac developers -
> somewhere in the lower half. What right do you have to assume your coding skills are
> any more superior than those of others who have produced something like Koi Pond
> or the multitude of ToDo apps?

ABW, if you read what Frasier said you’ll notice that he wasn’t putting down the writers of ToDo apps. What he *did* say was that there are so many ToDo apps (just a plain fact) and if Apple wants developers to invest serious resources in bigger applications, they will have to give developers more confidence in the process.

There’s nothing wrong with ToDo apps. And great! If you’re looking for a ToDo app you have plenty of choice. Nevertheless, those are the kind of apps which can be written by a single person in a reasonably short period of time. The consequences of being rejected, while extremely annoying, are not going to bring a business crashing down.

Bigger apps which are written by teams are a different matter altogether. It could take a large team of people several months to write a big app. They may have borrowed money from a bank to pay their costs up front. Being rejected could be cataclysmic, especially if as in the case of the podcasting app, the only reason is that their app competed with Apple.

> If you want support for your proposals you must to get support from everyone at
> EVERY level - *and* withdraw your Exposure app from the AppStore.

Really? Must he now! Because you say so? You’ve already said that in your opinion Frasier is halfway down the mac food chain and yet you are treating him as if he is the leader of the free world. Make up your mind.

> Making a stand means making a stand - you’re either in or you’re not.

Err… no, not really. Making a stand means doing what you can with the resources available to you.

> As we all know you won’t do that as it would stop a source of income for you -

And what about the legal issues regarding customers who have already bought his app? Is he supposed to just dump them at a moment’s notice?

> pity, as I did have respect for you at one stage

Not having your respect could be considered to be a badge of honour.

Are you a ToDo app writer by any chance?

James, you’re not exactly helping this man’s case by lobbing personal attacks at commenters. And by the way, when you say that “making a stand means doing what you can with the resources available to you”, pulling his app is fully within his resources. Also, I believe that part of Apple’s ToS for the App Store indicates that products are sold as-is and developers, as well as Apple, are under no obligation to provide additional individualized support. So really, pulling the app IS a resource that is available to him. Is he going to do it, though? No, obviously not, he’s already indicated as such. I certainly don’t blame him, he worked hard on the program, but I can also understand why people would think that Fraser can’t stick by his convictions about the App Store when he’s still collecting money from it. If he’s still supporting Apple’s system, then all the words in the world mean nothing to some people, and you have to understand and respect that people are going to find it unacceptable that Fraser is biting the hand that feeds him.

To those that believe Podcaster was removed because of bandwidth problems: setting aside technical debates about the ability of the network to handle the load, etc, all you’ve done is introduce more uncertainty into the developer’s world. Apple said it was because of duplicated functionality. Now we as a community are starting to wonder if it has to do with bandwidth load.

If I were thinking about starting to write an app, now I have to ponder: do I overlap with iTunes in some way? Do I require a lot of bandwidth? What reason do I believe? Frasier’s essential point has nothing to do with Apple’s rights, or censorship, it has to do with developers’ perception of risk. What are the chances his app will be approved once it is done?

The debate here between iTunes overlap and bandwidth consumption is simply illustrating the point: different developers are interpreting Apple’s actions differently, meaning different developers would make different decisions about the apps they would bet on being approved.

None of this is good for the health of the iPhone app ecosystem.

fuck apple!

So, who’s writing a competing app store ?

Please send this directly to Steve and report back on his response.

I have purchased the book “iPhone Open Application Development” and will only be producing apps for hacked iPhones. I will join other apps like Video Recorder 3G, Snapture, iLog (sp?), and a variety of awesome apps that violate apple’s “rules” but make my iPhone so much better. Also, the above apps all are shareware, where you can purchase a real license and activate it on the phone without a middleman.

Thanks everyone. I think we’ve mined this topic as far as is worthwhile. Please feel free to follow up on your own blog and link here. I’ll see it in my referrer logs.

It’s interesting to note that the downturn in comment quality almost exactly coincides with the point at which this post started getting a lot of traffic from Reddit.

*click*